Robson’s Route to Changing His Story – Part 3

“They are making up all these lies about you and me, saying that we did all this disgusting sexual stuff”

Going back to Wade’s statement about what Michael Jackson had told him on the phone while allegedly “coaching” him for his testimony: it defies Robson’s allegations of sexual abuse. That sounds something that an innocent man would say, not an abuser to his victim: “They are making up all these lies about you and me, saying that we did all this disgusting sexual stuff.” [1; paragraph 40]

(Emphasis added.)

First of all, when an abuser talks directly to his victim they would both know the abuse happened, so it makes no sense for an abuser to deny it and call it “lies” while talking about it directly to his victim. Secondly, Robson’s claim is that Jackson had told him that the alleged sexual relationship between them was an expression of love and that Robson believed it up until 2012. However, here Robson quotes Jackson saying that what he was accused of was “disgusting sexual stuff”. This goes against the claim that Jackson considered such alleged acts as “an expression of love”. On the contrary, based on this, he considered them as “disgusting sexual stuff”, like any person would who has no such inclinations. Moreover, it also defies Wade’s claim of him believing it was love until 2012, because he was allegedly brainwashed into that by Jackson. Here he quotes Jackson himself telling him that such acts were “disgusting sexual stuff”, so how would that not ring a bell to an adult man, like Wade was in 2005, that something was wrong with that picture, after all?

Wade tries to explain his claim that this would be some sort of “role play” or “coaching” by saying that Jackson would tell him that their phones were tapped during these conversations. In his 2016 deposition, interestingly, Wade commented that this was his perspective NOW that this was some sort of role play: “essentially, I mean, my perspective on it now is like a rehearsal for the stand, you know, where he would say they’re saying we did all these disgusting things together” (emphasis added) [2; page 139]. That sounds like a hindsight re-evaluation of what would really point to Jackson’s innocence, and turning it into a “coaching” and “role-play” story now, in the hindsight of his allegations.

Apparently, Wade did not discuss his testimony with Jackson in person before he went on the stand in 2005, because he only mentions these “role playing” phone conversations with him in his deposition [2; 138-140]. He mentions having one very short, about 5-10 minutes conversation with Jackson’s attorney for the trial, Thomas Mesereau (not clear whether on the phone or in person) [2; page 136] and from the defense team it was private investigator, Scott Ross who interviewed the Robson family in person and in length before their testimonies. Ross interviewed him about twice in person, according to Wade [2; page 137]. Wade does not accuse either Mesereau or Ross of trying to make him give a false testimony or trying to coach him.

In various interviews Mesereau said that when he asked him, Wade was very convincing and unambiguous in his statements that Jackson never molested him. Scott Ross told the same. In June 2016, in an interview with the Internet podcast called “The MJ Cast”, Ross revealed that he is actually good friends with Wade’s older brother Shane, who also works as a private investigator, but he does not believe Wade’s current sexual abuse story and he told this Shane as well. Ross said that in 2005 he interviewed Wade several times before his testimony and he never saw anything that made him believe that he was lying then. Ross said that he has no qualms telling the attorney if he feels a witness is lying and should not be used in court, but with Wade he never felt that. On the contrary, he was very credible.

“Wade Robson was the first person that Tom [Mesereau] put on the stand. He was completely credible. He told me everything, everything he testified to it didn’t happen, nothing happened, didn’t do this, didn’t do this. All of a sudden now he’s trying to jump on the bandwagon and trying to collect some money. What’s up with that? So… I interviewed him at great length. I went out to his house, I met with his mom, I met with his sister, I met with his brother. I interviewed him at great length on numerous occasions and none of this was there, none of this was real. He never made any… he never lost eye contact, there was nothing in there that caused me to believe that he was lying to me” [3], said Ross in the interview.

So now, in the hindsight of his allegations, Jackson calling such acts “disgusting sexual stuff” and Jackson calling the allegations “made up” and “lies” to Wade, are turned into it being some sort of very contrived on-the-phone “role play” and “coaching” that was allegedly so effective that it made Wade a masterful liar for more than two decades, so convincing that “he should have had an Oscar”, according to his mother.

There is no claim of Jackson personally meeting up with Wade before Wade’s 2005 testimony and telling him in a direct manner what to say or how to behave on the stand. All Wade can do is alleging that it was some sort of “role play” when Jackson told him on the phone things like “[t]hey are making up all these lies about you and me, saying that we did all this disgusting sexual stuff” .

In his deposition Wade said that in 2005 he told Jackson that he did not want to testify because he did not want to be dragged into the case, the media attention was too intense and he wanted to focus on his own life as he was about to get married. More interesting is what he did not tell Jackson: he did not tell him that he did not want to testify because he would have to perjure himself [2; page 138-139]. One would think that would be someone’s main concern if he was forced to lie on the stand, but Wade did not express any concern to anyone, including Jackson himself or his legal representatives, that he would have to perjure himself on the stand if he was to testify. There is not any evidence that he actually did perjure himself in 2005. On the other hand, there is evidence of him perjuring himself now, in this case when he makes sexual abuse allegations against Jackson, but we will get back to that later.

Despite of not wanting to testify, Wade was subpoenaed by Jackson’s defense, so he felt he was eventually left no choice but to testify [2; page 140].

Think about it: if Jackson had really molested Wade, it would have been incredible risk-taking on his part, both in 1993 and 2005, to put this guy on the stand (in 2005 as his first witness) and to rely on such lame supposed “role plays”, and hope not only that Wade would understand what Jackson wanted with those cryptic comments on the phone, but also that he would surely go along with it and would know exactly what to say, how to behave on the stand and how to be convincing. All that expectation from a man who was reluctant to testify.

After Jackson was acquitted on June 13, 2005, the Robson family was overjoyed, according to an interview that Wade’s mother, Joy had given the next day to an Australian paper:

“We just feel so vindicated right across the board,” said Joy Robson, who watched the verdict live on TV from her LA home.

“We were crying and screaming and crying and screaming.” [4]

Previous chapter:  “A master of deception” – then or now?

Next chapter: A failed prophecy


[1] Wade Robson’s Fourth Amended Complaint – see as an attachment to Notice of Plaintiff Wade Robson’s Motion to Amend the Third Amended Complaint; Memorandum of Points and Authortities (filed on September 9, 2016)

[2] Deposition Transcript of Wade Jeremy William Robson (December 12, 2016)

[3] The MJCast – Episode 033: Vindication Day Special with Scott Ross, June 18, 2016, the part about Robson is from 1:10.12

[4] Aussies bolstered Jackson’s defence case (The Age, June 14, 2005)

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